Anyone who uses eBay should read this thread .

i cleaned it up for ya pete.

Im not seeing the big deal about this? And also isnt that common practice on all sites that buy/sell via the internet?

Raven - The "big deal" involved here isn't the spirit of eBay's policy - it's the potential for abuse of/ and the ease of access to the information itself.

"One fax to eBay from a lawman - police
investigator, NSA, FBI or CIA employee, National Park ranger - and
eBay sends back the user's full name, email address, home address,
mailing address, home telephone number, name of company where seller
is employed and user nickname. What's more, eBay will send the history
of items he has browsed, feedbacks received, bids he has made, prices
he has paid, and even messages sent in the site's various discussion
groups." (Emphasis mine - DS).

If that kind of stuff doesn't bother you, perhaps you should read the original article, here - there you can also read about "simulated histories/feedbacks" and their "impersonation" policy.

Don't use eBay myself, but were I a user, I'd be pretty indignant knowing that - if I bought something that they didn't consider "normal" (according to their dossier on me) some of their investigators would be swarming over my account with a fine-toothed comb looking to see if they needed to call the local Park Ranger about me.

Add to that the "eBay/PayPal" connection:

"By buying PayPal, eBay is merging the information about the goods trail with the money trail," explains Kozlovski. "Thus, in spite of the protective mechanisms of the law against disclosure of details on transactions, eBay is in a position to analyze the full set of data and `advise' investigators when it might be `worthwhile' for them to ask for a subpoena to disclose the details of a financial transaction. Essentially, this bypasses the rules on non-disclosure of details of financial transactions and the confidentiality of the banker-client relationship."

Hopefully, you (and everyone else that uses eBay) can start to see the problem here after reading and properly digesting all of this - if not, hey, continue to use it - I just want to make sure you're aware of what's happening.

I dont use eBay actually. I will have a read through the article later as I dont have a lot of time on my hands at the moment. And why would this bother you at all if you arent doing anything wrong? The information is used for finding crooks and whatnot... not for exploiting you or framing you.

ah yes, but its the great privacy um.. thing

People are just annoyed at the availability of there info to whoever, when they are trying to hide behind the annonimity of the internet.

But lets be honest, if anyone really wants your address, or even if they dont, it isnt all that hard in anyway tbh.

Being indignant at Privacy Policies really doesnt get you anywhere tbh.

Hi People, while I understand your concern, I feel we have to give up some privacy if we expect our intelligence agencies to be able to find and stop terrorism. People who don't like this are still free to not use the internet for these purposes. I personally feel that the FBI/CIA and other countries' intelligence agencies need this type freedom if we expect them to stop terrorist acts before they can be put into action. I share your concern for abuse, but we have to trust that abuse will be kept to a minimum...at least e-bay has seemingly been up front about it. Further, using the internet and providing personal info is at best risky, and not recommended. We all have to make decisions about this. Have a nice day, rob

Greetings. I am sometimes at a loss to understand or fully comprehend workings of the mind, wherefore perceived logic isn't coming from an area between the ears, below the dome, and above the jawbones. In some cases, it tends to evolve from the south end of a donkey heading north, figuratively speaking. I feel that we as a people (and a nation) are at a crossroads where symbolism (deceit) lies in one direction and authentic substance (truth) lies in the opposite. I couldn't agree more with PC RIGGER. "Let them do their job and I'll do mine"...is my motto. Should any of those groups wish, they can have carte blanc to anywhere I visit or anything I buy online. We tend to conjur up too many high peaks when only valleys lie before us. My thoughts on this are in reference to privacy invasion...and not meant to be construed as a response to any poster. Regards

If you can make the boring old "I have nothing to hide" argument in a privacy debate, I guess there really is no point trying to explain to you what's wrong about ebay's policy. Most people have nothing to hide and they would still require a search warrant before allowing the police to search their home. If you would let them come into your home anytime they please with or without a warrant, then feel free to do so and believe you're helping fight terrorism. The rest of us will remember the constitution that our kids in uniform are right now dying to defend.

In a previous post, PCRigger said:

"Hi People, while I understand your concern, I feel we have to give up some privacy..."

I am reminded of something Ben Franklin said:

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety"

The fact remains that EBay appears willing, with little or no resistance, to give all and any information concerning it's users to any law administrative agencies upon demand, regardless of a users' activities within the site. Privacy concerns or no, users expect some semblance of trust and protection from an online business they have a relationship with and deservedly so, especially when a business is so dependent on that relationship they would be unable to continue operation should the bonds of trust be dissolved.

Unfortunately, privacy is one of the most fleeting of individual rights. The average American is filmed on closed circuit television and average of 73 times a day. Names, credit histories and spending behavior profiles are routinely traded and sold from one company and agency to another. All electronic transmissions in or out of the United States (telephone, radio, cellular and Internet) are recorded and analyzed by the National Security Agency to see if they contain certain patterns and keywords associated with suspicious behavior. Financial staus and history is even checked to reserve domestic US flights.

Understandably, if users on EBay involved some potentially damaging, threatening or illegal activity, especially in these sensitive times, then the proper procedures should be followed to lawfully obtain the neccessary information to assist whatever investigation into those incidents and elements the user may involved with. It should not maintain an "open book" policy that will in all probability become abused.

However, I do not believe sales of items on EBay is a major source of information for any agency, regardless of the situation we are discussing now. Most of the information in EBay is already available in any normal database. Selling a WW2 bayonet, cheap ceramic garden statues or computer video card is of little concern to anyone, especially when one considers the sheer numbers of users on EBay. That would be like using any of the popular IM programs to do the same.

I do not, however, agree with PC Riggers' statement about willingly "giving up some privacy" under any circumstances. That is a very dangerous attitude to adopt. Once something is lost it is very rarely returned, and when is enough actually enough? When does it end?

However, that is not the subject at hand, nor will it be. This cannot and will not become a politically charged thread. The discussion concerns EBays' privacy policies (or lack of them). My major concern with Ebays' lack of resistance is that people are so willing to fall into the complacency trap. If people show so little concern for their online habits, why should any company or site not follow suit? There have been so many gains with regard to Internet privacy and so many battles have been fought over it. This EBay policy represents a serious threat to those gains. Unfortunately, not enough people are aware of this policy. I'm sure there would be an attitude change toward EBay if there were.

I, for one do not use EBay. I can't stand it.

While I believe that the aftermath of 9/11 is frequently capitalized on by forces low and to the right within this country, I agree with Interceptor that that is a topic for another forum.

In the meantime, while this IS still a free country, it's best to vote with both your wallet and your feet. eBay may have been the first the first auction, but nowadays they're certainly not the only auction. Until the Vaterland Sicherheitsburo gets to all of them, just push for fair disclosure of policies and throw your business to the ones that seem to treat you right.

PW

Who is going to force ebay to adhere to it's own policy??? Before you say the government, you've got to see how much ebay is paying for our government to represent them.

ebay Goes to Washington

Ok, we will all force ebay to adhere to their policy by not visiting their site and shopping there. But, who has the time to search out, read, investigate and review every site you visit on the Internet???? Five minutes of online shopping would take hours just to determine whether that site is adhering to it's own policies. Not to mention the time and sheer agony of reading those policies we agree to without reading. It is crazy to expect people to not take the easy way out and just order the damned Gorman Thomas bobbing head on ebay.

I am here because I like reading about Internet privacy issues, and I like soy-based drinks. Can we expect everyone to go through the riggers of investigating the web sites they are going to visit for privacy issues? In the same way can we expect everyone will drink soymilk because it is healthier than the body fluids of cows (I drink soy because it tastes good).

I fault no one for shopping at ebay.

There is only one way to secure our freedoms. Stop corporate America from buying congressional & government administrative people and usurping our rights for their profit. Not shopping at ebay will not make a difference. Internet businesses are too unstable and it is too difficult to make a profit on the Internet (unless you’re in porn). If everyone we talk to stops shopping at ebay, at least in the somewhat near future, there will still not be enough of “us” out there to patronize a web site that could possibly compete with ebay.

If we want ebay or any other web site to be concerned about our rights, privacy or to adhere to it’s own policies, we need a better answer than “I just won’t shop there.”

QUOTE

"The purpose of laws is to protect smart people from stupid people.  Smart people would not behave in a manner that would warrant creating a law to stop that behavior; smart people slow down or stop at uncontrolled intersections, stupid people need stop signs." - §øggý¤þøÿÐ