I know many of you already know what an Internet Troll is with your years of experience on the net. This will be informative for those newer ones on the net that may not know. "Netiquette Guidelines"....so to speak. I thought the article was very interesting and hope that you find it that way as well.


Excerpts from the article
"Internet Trolls"
Copyright © 2001 by Timothy Campbell
July 13 2001 Edition

What is an Internet Troll?

An Internet "troll" is a person who delights in sowing discord on the Internet. He (and it is usually he) tries to start arguments and upset people.

Trolls see Internet communications services as convenient venues for their bizarre game. For some reason, they don't "get" that they are hurting real people. To them, other Internet users are not quite human but are a kind of digital abstraction. As a result, they feel no sorrow whatsoever for the pain they inflict. Indeed, the greater the suffering they cause, the greater their 'achievement' (as they see it). At the moment, the relative anonymity of the net allows trolls to flourish.

Trolls are utterly impervious to criticism (constructive or otherwise). You cannot negotiate with them; you cannot cause them to feel shame or compassion; you cannot reason with them. They cannot be made to feel remorse. For some reason, trolls do not feel they are bound by the rules of courtesy or social responsibility.

Why does it Matter?

Some people -- particularly those who have been online for years -- are not upset by trolls and consider them an inevitable hazard of using the net. As the saying goes, "You can't have a picnic without ants."

It would be nice if everybody was so easy-going, but the sad fact is that trolls do discourage people. Established posters may leave a message board because of the arguments that trolls ignite, and lurkers (people who read but do not post) may decide that they do not want to expose themselves to abuse and thus never get involved.

Another problem is that the negative emotions stirred up by trolls leak over into other discussions. Normally affable people can become bitter after reading an angry interchange between a troll and his victims, and this can poison previously friendly interactions between long-time users.

Finally, trolls create a paranoid environment, such that a casual criticism by a new arrival can elicit a ferocious and inappropriate backlash.

The Internet is a wonderful resource which is breaking down barriers and stripping away prejudice. Trolls threaten our continued enjoyment of this beautiful forum for ideas.


The Webmaster's Challenge

When trolls are ignored they step up their attacks, desperately seeking the attention they crave. Their messages become more and more foul, and they post ever more of them. Alternatively, they may protest that their right to free speech is being curtailed -- more on this later.

The moderator of a message board may not be able to delete a troll's messages right away, but their job is made much harder if they also have to read numerous replies to trolls. They are also forced to decide whether or not to delete posts from well-meaning folks which have the unintended effect of encouraging the troll.

Some webmasters have to endure conscientious users telling them that they are "acting like dictators" and should never delete a single message. These people may be misinformed: they may have arrived at their opinion about a troll based on the messages they see, never realizing that the webmaster has already deleted his most horrific material. Please remember that a troll does have an alternative if he has something of value to say: there are services on the net that provide messaging systems free of charge. So the troll can set up his own message board, where he can make his own decisions about the kind of content he will tolerate.

Just how much can we expect of a webmaster when it comes to preserving the principles of free speech? Some trolls find sport in determining what the breaking point is for a particular message board operator. They might post a dozen messages, each of which contains 400 lines of the letter "J". That is a form of expression, to be sure, but would you consider it your duty to play host to such a person?

Perhaps the most difficult challenge for a webmaster is deciding whether to take steps against a troll that a few people find entertaining. Some trolls do have a creative spark and have chosen to squander it on being disruptive. There is a certain perverse pleasure in watching some of them. Ultimately, though, the webmaster has to decide if the troll actually cares about putting on a good show for the regular participants, or is simply playing to an audience of one -- himself.

What about Free Speech?

When trolls find that their efforts are being successfully resisted, they often complain that their right to free speech is being infringed. Let us examine that claim.

While most people on the Internet are ardent defenders of free speech, it is not an absolute right; there are practical limitations. For example, you may not scream out "Fire!" in a crowded theatre, and you may not make jokes about bombs while waiting to board an airplane. We accept these limitations because we recognize that they serve a greater good.

Another useful example is the control of the radio frequency spectrum. You might wish to set up a powerful radio station to broadcast your ideas, but you cannot do so without applying for a license. Again, this is a practical limitation: if everybody broadcasted without restriction, the repercussions would be annoying at best and life-threatening at worst.

The radio example is helpful for another reason: with countless people having a legitimate need to use radio communications, it is important to ensure that nobody is 'monopolizing the channel'. There are only so many clear channels available in each frequency band and these must be shared.

When a troll attacks a message board, he generally posts a lot of messages. Even if his messages are not particularly inflammatory, they can be so numerous that they drown out the regular conversations (this is known as 'flooding'). Needless to say, no one person's opinions can be allowed to monopolize a channel.

The ultimate response to the 'free speech' argument is this: while we may have the right to say more or less whatever we want, we do not have the right to say it wherever we want. You may feel strongly about the fact that your neighbor has not mowed his lawn for two months, but you do not have the right to berate him in his own living room. Similarly, if a webmaster tells a troll that he is not welcome, the troll has no "right" to remain. This is particularly true on the numerous free communications services offered on the net. (On pay systems, the troll might be justified in asking for a refund.)

Conclusion

Next time you are on a message board and you see a post by somebody whom you think is a troll, and you feel you must reply, simply write a follow-up message entitled "Troll Alert" and type only this:

The only way to deal with trolls is to limit your reaction to reminding others not to respond to trolls.

By posting such a message, you let the troll know that you know what he is, and that you are not going to get dragged into his twisted little hobby.

Interesting read, Marcia. Another thing I have noticed, with increasing frequency, is folks with severe emotional problems who post. They aren't "trolls" as described in the article you posted, not really, they just have mental/emotional problems that get in the way of normal relationships. And many times it is much easier to "let it out" by typing and posting anonomously than if they were in a face-to-face situation where they would get an immediate, emotional response that they would have to deal with. We can only deal with it and move on. Thanks for sharing.

I kind of feel bad for folk like that, Ranchhand. It's as if these folk have nobody to talk to in R/L, so they let it out online. It's far from ideal.

Coming back to trolls, Marcia, you might find this little gem rather entertaining:

Very interesting Marcia, thanks for sharing.

My feelings exactly, Angoid.........
kenneth

Whee, I knew what they were, but now you named them !

Thanks Marcia, we needed this to clarify something. As an elder ham radio operator (PY2RZ), I knew this long time before the Internet !

Thanks for sharing.

Chris

Good job Red.

people butted in and spamed the radio with their garbage to I think that would of been worse listening to insults and either trying to ignore them or go all out in verbal warfare

Great article Marcia; I think that it should be pinned as a guideline, and an aid in finding and exposing the trolls among us. I have to admit, it’s a great exposé on “trollism;” keep up the good work.

You get them in all walks of life, but they seem to flourish where the anonymity level is (or can be) quite high.

Internet: Trolls, as per that article and what we've been discussing. Also in blogs - we had one on a blog I used to post at quite a lot where the troll just kept saying "Narwhal" over and again. Then the posts became less incoherent, but it was always something to do with Narwhals, and never on topic (bad web design).

Ham Radio: A field I don't know a lot about and haven't had any experience with, but I have used CB radio before today, and you get folk there who are always around, always making inane, worthless conversation, and they are nothing more than a pain in the neck.

Real Life: A number of years ago, I went to my church 'housegroup' meeting (a normal weekly event) and there was something specific I wanted to talk to the group leaders about privately. Because we had a member who used to hijack the meetings by telling everyone all his deep emotional problems, I called the group leaders first to say I wanted to speak to them about something. That meeting was still hijacked, and in the end the only way to get the leaders' attention was to say "I need to go now" at the end ..... only that had the desired effect. But that man had very serious emotional issues, and I think this led him to dominate and control the meetings, and the leaders weren't strong enough to handle him or help him.

Work: Obstreperous customers. Gotta love 'em, no Folk you just cannot satisfy, for whom your best simply isn't good enough ... and they have to make you aware of this. If you're really unlucky, they'll also copy your team leader into their emails as well.

Thanks for all your comments and additional information. Here is some more information I didn't post, but you may find interesting.Some of it may be repeating what the above said.

What is an Internet Troll/ Forum troll?

* An "Internet troll" or "Forum Troll" or "Message Board Troll" is a person who posts outrageous message to bait people to answer. Forum Troll delights in sowing discord on the forums. A troll is someone who inspires flaming rhetoric, someone who is purposely provoking and pulling people into flaming discussion. Flaming discussions usually end with name calling and a flame war.


While sometimes, he may sound like a stupid, uninformed, ignorant poster, do not be deceived! Most trolls are highly intelligent people trying to hide behind a mask of stupidity and/or ignorance! They usually have an agenda.

A troll will sometimes use insults to provoke other people to insult him. Then, he will complain to moderators of being insulted and will request that his opponents get banned from further discussion.


He (and in 90% of cases it is he) tries to start arguments and upset people.

Sometimes, Internet troll is trying to spin conflicting information, is questioning in an insincere manner, flaming discussion, insulting people, turning people against each other, harassing forum members, ignoring warnings from forum moderators.

Trolling is a form of harassment that can take over a discussion. Well meaning defenders can create chaos by responding to trolls. The best response is to ignore it, or to report a message to a forum moderator. Negative emotions stirred up by trolls leak over into other discussions. Normally affable people can become bitter after reading an angry interchange between a troll and his victims, and this can poison previously friendly interactions between long-time users.

Finally, trolls create a paranoid environment, such that a casual criticism by a new arrival can elicit a ferocious and inappropriate backlash.

When trolls are ignored they step up their attacks, desperately seeking the attention they crave. Their messages become more and more foul, and they post ever more of them.

Alternatively, they may protest that their right to free speech is being curtailed.

Perhaps the most difficult challenge for a webmaster is deciding whether to take steps against a troll that a few people find entertaining. Some trolls do have a creative spark and have chosen to squander it on being disruptive. There is a certain perverse pleasure in watching some of them. Ultimately, though, the webmaster has to decide if the troll actually cares about putting on a good show for the regular participants, or is simply playing to an audience of one -- himself.

The only way to deal with trolls is to limit your reaction and not to respond to trolling messages. It is well known that most people don't read messages that nobody responds to, while 99% of forum visitors first read the longest and the largest threads with the most answers.

* Troll Message is an outrageous message posted to a message board, newsgroup or mailing list to bait people to answer.

"...If you're really unlucky, they'll also copy your team leader into their emails as well..."

I had forgotten the old CB days. I can remember being so angry on there I would have given anything to find them and get my hands on them.

Like most truckers I have a CB and have had one for over twenty years. I leave my CB off 99% of the time. Too many people trolling. It's much worse on the major roads, like interstates. I thought it was similar to the internet trolling right from the first day I got on the internet. Some people when they can be anonymous feel free to 'have at it'. A CB can be handy when traffic slows or comes to a halt because you can ask traffic going the other direction what the problem is. If its an accident and they can tell you which lane its in so you can move over early.
If two more drivers from the same company are traveling the same direction they can go off to an unused channel and travel in relative peace.

A point that has stuck out for me in this discussion is that I'd heard that the best way to deal with trolls is to simply ignore them. However, the original article said that when ignored, trolls are likely to step up their attacks.

I suppose one thing you can do as an ordinary member is to PM a moderator or an administrator, asking for their opinion and alerting them to a potential argument before it starts. If you are a mod or admin, you can post in that capacity to nail it on the head.

There was a very interesting occasion on another board where a member posted that he does not read PMs from the mods. He had been attacking others' points of view quite aggressively, had ignored messages from the mods and admins asking him not to use bad language, and seemed to be upsetting some folk. I also know this experientally because he ignored a message I sent him once as well (I'm an admin over there). When I read his posting saying that he ignores PMs from mods, I posted back stating that he puts himself into a very difficult position like that because it meant that the mods could only address him on the public board

This seemed to have put his out-of-line behaviour quite nicely into a box.

I started using CB radio in 1976, in Belgium. It was prohibited there at this time, so I had my CB transceiver under my seat, a remote control to see/change channels and an automated antenna. Good times...

When I came back home (Brazil), late in the 80's I found a lot of taxi drivers on the frequency, most of them complaining that we, CBers were using their frequencies (it was prohibited here too)

So, I switched to VHF (144/148 MHz) by passing an exam to class C, updated to class B one year later and to class A the other year (class A are CW -telegraphy- skilled, 13 wpm in transmission, 15 wpm in reception).

Most truck and taxi drivers uses pirated CBs here, but the trolls are in all frequencies, CB, VHF, 15 and 20 meters and so on... This is why I resigned, sold all my radios (except an old Delta 500) and switched to motorcycles. At the beginning, I had a dual band VHF/UHF transceiver on my motorcycle. Now I only have the 5/8 whip antenna on it, to protect me against the "cerol"* kite lines which may kill you in 30 seconds.

Chris

* "cerol" is fine grinded fluorescent lamps material with glue, used by kiters to cut other kites lines. A deadly stuff !

Chris, tell me more. I have never heard of this........
kenneth

Another tidbit.....From Wikipedia,

A troll's main goal is usually to arouse anger and frustration among the message board's other participants, and will write whatever it takes to achieve this end. One popular trolling strategy is the practice of Winning by Losing. While the victim is trying to put forward solid and convincing facts to prove his position, the troll's only goal is to infuriate its prey. The troll takes (what it knows to be) a badly flawed, wholly illogical argument, and then vigorously defends it while mocking and insulting its prey. The troll looks like a complete fool, but this is all part of the plan. The victim becomes noticeably angry by trying to repeatedly explain the flaws of the troll's argument. Provoking this anger was the troll's one and only goal from the very beginning.



Whether it's a troll, an emotionally disturbed person, or whatever...I feel if they can't be respectful to others then after a warning they should be banned. You lose members that leave because they don't want to put up with someone that treats others in a disrespectful manner. There are members that would just leave and not pm a mod or admin. I know Wes used to ban their IP address so they couldn't come back as someone else. We have had people do that at SAF before.

Some people just treat people badly whether on the internet or in real life. It's easier to treat people badly on the net. I know some people in real life that have driven family and friends away by the way they treat them probably due to emotional instability. You can feel sorry for them, but that isn't going to help or change them. They need professional help and/or meds.

Well, pick a fluorescent lamp, remove both ends, broke and grind it to fine powder, mix with glue and paste it to your kite line... you'll have a cutter. When you are at 40 miles (or less) on a motorcycle, if you reach a kite line, it will cut your neck (read your jugular vein) like a razor. We have a lot of deaths here related to this. Nothing you can do about, once cut, you die.

This is why we all (bikers) use some kind of antenna or telescopic device with a hook to push the cerol line over our heads. Google "cerol" to see horrible pics and the Brazilian campaign against it.

This is what I have on my bike... a cerol kite line will slip on it and hopefully past over my head, not on my neck.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

That's terrible Chris, are the police able to catch most of them??

Unfortunately, they are normally "minors", so the Police can't do much about. We have educative campaigns to the parents, who must watch their children and avoid this practice. For them, cutting other's kite lines is only a battle game.

Chris

Thanks for that Marcia..........mam.....they are really something. I am in a public forum.....and oh i gotta tell ya......the garbage you have to step over now and then......and THIS....is a MOMS forum for pitty sake. I usually just step over them lol......but sometimes.......honestly!!!!!

I got soooooo sick of it ....though i am still a member.....i made homes other places. So when it does come out of the woodwork......i just click on the favorites

Photos of what 'cerol' can do to a motorcycle and clothing are shown HERE. There's no images of any bodily injuries.

Sounds scary. Do you know if the device on your motorcycle actually works?

I am a kiter but never heard of such a thing before.

http://www.kitesclub.com/

Welcome to SAF, Dina

I have to say, I hadn't heard of it until I saw this thread a few weeks or so ago. Scary stuff!

Please do feel free to look around here, contribute wherever you feel able and capable, and if you have a computer problem then hopefully we can sort it out for you