To get more one need to become a paid member of the Window Secerets Newslettle this is the last time I put my paid for copy or any part of it in a post. Because what some feel it might be spam. I just want the truth and important data out on the net for all who miight benefit. But that policy ends after this post. SO either find a friend that spent the $12.00 US dollars or sign up for the free version --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOP STORY

Get Vista upgrade, never pay full price

By Brian Livingston

Many people are upset by the fact that the economical, "upgrade" version of Vista won't accept a Windows XP or Windows 2000 CD-ROM as proof of ownership. Vista Upgrade is said to install only to a hard disk that already has XP or 2000 already on it.

But I've tested a method that allows you to clean-install the Vista upgrade version on any hard drive, with no prior XP or W2K installation — or even a CD — required.


Save by avoiding the 'full' version

Windows Vista, in my opinion, is a big improvement over Windows XP in many ways. But the new operating system is distinctly overpriced.

The list price of the "full" (not "upgrade") version of the most expensive edition, Vista Ultimate, is $399.95 USD, with a street price around $380. That gold-plated retail figure is only possible because Microsoft long ago achieved monopoly pricing power in the PC operating system market.

Most computer users would prefer to keep using an older version of Windows, such as XP, rather than paying the inflated prices for the "full" version of Vista. To encourage switching to a new OS, Microsoft has historically offered a lower, "upgrade" price to people who can prove that they've previously purchased an older copy of Windows.

The difference between Vista's full and upgrade prices can be substantial. Based on the asking prices shown at Shopping.com on Jan. 31 — the day after the consumer version of Vista became available — the four most popular Vista versions will set you back approximately as follows:

Edition Full version Upgrade version
Vista Home Basic $192 $100 ($92 less)
Vista Home Premium $228 $156 ($72 less)
Vista Business $285 $192 ($93 less)
Vista Ultimate $380 $225 ($155 less)

The upgrade versions of Vista have street prices that are 32% to 48% cheaper than the full versions. If you're truly installing Vista over an old instance of XP or W2K, the upgrade version of Vista will find the older OS on your hard drive and install without question. The problem is that Vista, unlike every version of Windows in the past, doesn't let you insert a physical disc from an older operating system as evidence of your previous purchase.

Vista has an undocumented feature, however, that actually allows you to "clean install" Vista to a hard disk that has no prior copy of XP or W2K.

Use Vista's 'upgrade' version to clean-install

The secret is that the setup program in Vista's upgrade version will accept an installed copy of XP, W2K, or an unactivated copy of Vista itself as evidence of a previous installation.

This enables you to "clean install" an upgrade version of Vista to any formatted or unformatted hard drive, which is usually the preferred method when installing any new operating system. You must, in essence, install Vista twice to take advantage of this trick. But Vista installs much faster than XP, so it's quicker than installing XP followed by Vista to get the upgrade price.

Before you install Vista on a machine that you don't know is 100% compatible, you should run Microsoft's free Upgrade Advisor. This program — which operates only on 32-bit versions of XP and Vista (plus Vista Enterprise) — reports to you on any hardware or software it finds that may be incompatible with Vista. See Microsoft's Upgrade Advisor page.

Also, to see which flavors of XP Home, XP Pro, and 2000 officially support in-place installs and clean installs of the different Vista editions, see Microsoft's upgrade paths page.

Here's a simplified overview of the steps that are required to clean-install the upgrade version of Vista:

Step 1. Boot the PC from the Vista DVD.

Step 2. Select "Install Now," but do not enter the Product Key from the Vista packaging. Leave the input box blank. Also, turn off the option Automatically activate Windows when I'm online. In the next dialog box that appears, confirm that you really do want to install Vista without entering a Product Key.

Step 3. Correctly indicate the version of Vista that you're installing: Home Basic, Home Premium, Business, or Ultimate.

Step 4. Select the "Custom (Advanced)" install, not the "Upgrade" install.

Step 5. Vista copies files at length and reboots itself one or more times. Wait for the install to complete. At this point, you might think that you could "activate" Vista, but you can't. That's because you haven't installed the Vista upgrade yet. To do that, run the DVD's setup.exe program again, but this time from the Vista desktop. The easiest way to start setup again is to eject and then reinsert the DVD.

Step 6. Click "Install Now." Select Do not get the latest updates for installation. (You can check for these updates later.)

Step 7. This time, do enter the Product Key from the Vista packaging. Once again, turn off the option Automatically activate Windows when I'm online.

Step 8. On this second install, make sure to select "Upgrade," not "Custom (Advanced)." You're not doing a clean install now, you're upgrading to Vista.

Step 9. Wait while Vista copies files and reboots itself. No user interaction is required. Do not boot from the DVD when asked if you'd like to do so. Instead, wait a few seconds and the setup process will continue on its way. Some DOS-like, character-mode menus will appear, but don't interact with them. After a few seconds, the correct choice will run for you automatically.

Step 10. After you click a button labeled Start in the Thank You dialog box, Vista's login screen will eventually appear. Enter the username and password that you selected during the first install. You're done upgrading to Vista.

Step 11. Within 30 days, you must "activate" your copy of Vista or it'll lose functionality. To activate Vista, click Show more details in the Welcome Center that automatically displays upon each boot-up, then click Activate Windows now. If you've dismissed the Welcome Center, access the correct dialog box by clicking Start, Control Panel, System & Maintenance, System. If you purchased a legitimate copy of Vista, it should quickly activate over the Internet. (You can instead activate by calling Microsoft on the phone, which avoids your PC exchanging information with Microsoft's server.)

I'm not going into detail today on the merits of buying Vista at retail instead of buying a cheaper OEM copy. (The OEM offerings don't entitle you to call Microsoft for support, while the retail packages do.) Also, I'm not touching here on the least-expensive way to buy Vista, which is to take advantage of Microsoft's "educational" rate. I'll describe both of these topics in next week's newsletter.

Why does Vista's secret setup exist?

It's reasonable for us to ask ourselves whether buying an upgrade version of Vista, and then installing it to an empty hard disk that contains no previous version of Windows, is ethical.

I believe it is. Microsoft itself created the upgrade process. The company designed Vista to support upgrading it over a previously installed copy of XP, W2K Pro, or Vista itself. This isn't a black-hat hacker exploit. It's something that's been deliberately programmed into the approved setup routine.

Microsoft spent years developing and testing Vista. This upgrade trick must have been known to many, many people within the development team. Either Microsoft planned this upgrade path all along, knowing that computer magazines and newsletters (like this one) would widely publicize a way to "save money buying Vista." Or else some highly placed coders within the Vista development team decided that Vista's "full" price was too high and that no one should ever have to pay it. In either case, Vista's setup.exe is Microsoft's official install routine, and I see no problem with using it exactly as it was designed.

We should also think about whether instances of Vista that were installed using the clean-install method will continue to operate. I believe that this method will continue to be present in Vista DVDs at least until Microsoft begins distributing the Service Pack 1 edition of Vista around fall 2007. Changing the routine in the millions of DVDs that are now in circulation would simply be too wrenching. And trying to remotely disable instances of Vista that were clean-installed — even if it were technically possible to distinguish them — would generate too many tech-support calls and too much ill will to make it worthwhile.

Installing the upgrade version of Vista, but not installing over an existing instance of XP or W2K, probably violates the Vista EULA (end-user license agreement). If you're a business executive, I wouldn't recommend that you flout any Windows license provisions just to save money.

If you're strictly a home user, contributing editor Susan Bradley points out that Microsoft's so-called Vista Family Discount (VFD) is an economical package that avoids any license issues. If you buy a retail copy of Vista Ultimate, MS lets you upgrade up to two additional PCs to Vista Home Premium for $50 each. For example, if you buy the upgrade version of Ultimate for $225, the grand total after you add two Home Premiums is $335. That's about $133 less than buying three upgrade versions of Home Premium. Details are at Microsoft's VFD page.

Microsoft did revise a Knowledge Base article, number 930985, on Jan. 31 that obliquely refers to the upgrade situation. It simply states that an upgrade version of Vista can't perform a clean install when a PC is booted from the Vista DVD. A clean install will only work, the document says, when the Vista setup is run from within an older version of Windows (or if a full version of Vista is being used).

This article doesn't at all deal with the fact that the Vista upgrade version will in fact clean-install using the steps described above. It'll be interesting to see whether MS ever explains why these steps were programmed in.

Personally, I consider Vista's ability to upgrade over itself to be Digital Rights Management that actually benefits consumers. It's almost cosmic justice.

I invite my readers to test Vista's undocumented clean-install method for themselves. There certainly must be aspects of this setup routine that I haven't yet discovered. I'll print the best findings from those sent in via our contact page. You'll receive a gift certificate for a book, CD, or DVD of your choice if you're the first to send in a tip that I print.

I'd like to thank my co-author of Windows Vista Secrets, Paul Thurrott, for his research help in bringing the clean-install method to light.

Brian Livingston is editorial director of the Windows Secrets Newsletter and the co-author of Windows Vista Secrets and 10 other books.

Here's another Vista for $199.99 from Newegg: Windows Vista Ultimate OEM Granted there are some limitations but it is one heck of lot less money than the full retail version of Ultimate.

My understanding one doen't want the full version at any cost. But I am happy with what I have XP media edition and as long as it runs I will stay with it as the main PC. My laptop has a free D/L of Vista but I will still wait a while longer.

I asked if it was spam because you have it in the wrong thread. This is I think it belongs in Don't bark at me

Sorry you took it that way. But then you could have pointed out your full meaning dog. I didn't bark at you. sure I said newbie but isn't any new member a newbie? I also in a later post Welcomed you to the board.
Just so we understand each other seeing (you haven't placed any info the last time I check in your profile) I don't bark. man I do a lot more than bark when pressed. Just training as I am a paratrooper. Do you know what that means? It means when doing our job we are surrounded. So there is but a few answers or choices. The one that counts is a full breakout attack. Which I did not do either.
Hey if you want this to be the last contact just to keep the board going with out my adding to the problem then I will leave it to please you. Or we need never to speak again. Or the right thing IMHO is let it go and grow, meaning the both of us! Friends sometime start out not caring for one another.
But judge me by ALL my posts a few over one thousand. Ask others what they think of me.
I haven't judged you nor will I. I just tried to settle the matter quickly. And if that upset you I am sorry dog.
Now I am going on with life at SAF please join in too.
Oh yes by the way we have mods and admin people in every topic area. They didn't deem the post was in the wrong place. Or you could have PM them and said something. Facts dog just simple facts.
But I do say I am sorry to have upset you. that wasn't my intention.
I am sure you have been member on other boards so you know that left clicking the user name in the top left of the post will revel info on a person.
Also I did ask for a topic area for newsletters. But I am one not likeing to post over others so I used that space as the post was over a month old that I replaced mine with. And it won't happen again as I said no more newsletters. I prefer the members lounge anyway.
Come in and join us there are some great people there. More civilized than I! LOOOOL

Seems to me there is a topic for newsletters, it's called Computer Tech & Other News.
You must of thought that at one time because you posted newsletters in there.
That's because I don't want to be googled.
Because a person says something you don't like is no reason to go off on that person, if you don't want to respond to my posts, don't. I don't want to argue with you, all I said was security should go into security and newsletters should go in the right place.

I don't have any answer for that, I don't know what your trying to say.

I never go by numbers, I go by what's said in posts.

Back at you, I didn't think saying something about the proper place for newsletters would get a reaction like yours.
I'm new, I don't want to have problems with anyone

Well my best answer to all the Quotes above your mind was focused upon the task at hand and that wasn't just reading the post accepting it is simple (the KISS onre might say) and I put out my hand.
Now is that simple enough for you. My hand is reaching out whats your reaction? (just to clean out any fog or mist)

Will I'm new here where can i get that there news letter,so it comes to my es-mail boxes

Try googling it grunt000. But then there are some who don't want to be googled like the reason for no info or ID left in a fourm. We are people wanting to share and listen to each other.And that means knowing each other. So if you decide to stay some time please consider that.
Speaking for myself I don't care to open up to a complete stranger. You care to leave some info in your new profile then I could add some more info here.

I am sure you read above your post. I am not applying that your attacking me or anyone!
Others might come in and see your need and tell you to just left click the topic area on almost any forum and select an earlier post relating to what info your looking for but not me. lol or to save you time click here
Got a unit name and date? I was with the 173 ABN. BDE. (SEP) E-Troop 17 th CAV. 67-68

Click to view attachment to the board

Thank you for reaching out to accept my handshake. Settled. Or do I need to watch the sky on the night of a full moon for the crossing shadow of the broom rider? Nothing, lol, really it was just a thought that came into view for a brief moment.